Re: Debt Elimination Programs - Decide for Yourself
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Posted by Prune Man
(65.161.188.11) on February 04, 2004 at 15:02:59:
In Reply to: Debt Elimination Programs - Good idea or not? posted by Joanna on February 04, 2004 at 11:26:48:
For what it's worth: I've inquired about a lot of these "elimination" methods and have received quite a bit of replies and information. I am very conservative and suspicious of the businesses that advertise this method, and being a natural skeptic (and a do-it-yourselfer), needed to find out more for myself. I have now read many documents to research the claims of the "eliminators". The evidence in the laws and codes seems to support the allegations of the "Eliminators". As far as I can tell, after months of research, the premise that lending "credit" is not allowed is fact, and isn't just conjecture or BS that someone made up. If what I understand is correct, there is a very great need for an audit of our national banking system's methods. If it was just a bunch of paperwork I would say "Yeah, but no one has ever applied this", but it's not just paperwork. There are specific court cases in which individuals have won based on their counsel's presentation of the law. The cases that I reviewed all used a accountant that was well versed in the banking system methods as an expert witness. I know of at least one I read that had examined the lender's own accountant as an expert witness. The "Eliminators" claim that the banking system knows that what they are doing is illegal, and that when pressured, they will generally allow an account to be eliminated rather than have a possible loss in court and bring more national attention to their illegal activities. ************************************************ To summarize my experience:
I have not been able to find anyone who has used this system successfully (or unsuccessfully) that I can meet or speak with, so I have been hesistant to try these methods. I have used some of what I learned in a recent court case I am involved in with no adverse reactions yet. If this little test works, I am going to move forward and apply what I have learned again. Debt elimination is not a cut-and-dry method. It is made up of many small pieces of information which must be prepared and presented so that a Judge and/or jury can understand this rather esoteric idea that a bank could ever commit fraud (LMAO). Frankly, what I see as the biggest obstacle is finding a law firm with enough presentation skills to pull this off without paying a prohibitive fee for their services. I will likely have to do this myself. Some of the companies offering this service charge huge fees! One guy wanted $10K + 10% of the mortgage amount in cash to cancel a mortgage. Whereas this would be a kick ass deal if I had that sort of money lying around, I am suspicious as to whether the risk is worth the money. Others have do-it-yourself kits and services that are only several hundred bucks. I haven't bought into one of these yet but I think about it. No one here seems to think that debt elimination is a good method, but they also claim no experience with it - The negative comments are largely conjecture with no established reason other than the fact that the ideas are outside their education (I'm not calling anyone dumb - please understand that a brilliant lawyer doesn't always understand a simple medical term). To me, debt elimination is still unproven, but unproven is still better than some of the proven bad results I have had using some of the popular advice on this board. (Don't take it the wrong way - most advice I receive here is good - but not all) *********************************************** The facts:
For some reason, this topic always creates flames no matter how it is approached. I won't argue the topic - I admit that I have only performed research and have little hands-on experience. For those of you that are interested in learning more I can suggest several pieces of material to read:
- UCC 3-104
- 15 USC s 1692
- Read about the Federal Reserve banking System (lots of good stuff here!)
- 31 USCA Sec 392
- Look up "ultra vire"
- HJR 192
- UCC Article 3, Section 603
- 15 USC 1692g § 809
- 11F 2d 83, 271 U.S. 669
- 92 U.S. 122, 128;, 174 U.S. 364
- 12 USC Sec. 1828 Get a used copy of Black’s Law Dictionary, or just go use the one sitting in your courthouse library. It is important for deciphering the legal terms. There is a book titled "Modern Money Mechanics" - printed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. It is used as an advertisement on one of the websites. I've read it, and it is good information to learn, but I doubt if it is useful in a legal environment. There is so much more information than this. These were all just things I have in my notes here at work, probably not even a tenth of what I have gathered. Before you take advice from the internet mob, I would suggest doing as much research as you can on this and make an "informed" decision on your own.
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